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Witnesses

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May. 18th, 2006 | 08:35 am
mood: thoughtfulthoughtful

Extract from an email from a friend:

"i've read that we have many levels of awareness, n it's like sort of neverending that we can witness the witness which witness the witness which witness the witness."

I was thinking about this just the other day.. I was talking to friends, I made the statement "awareness is recursive." By awareness, I meant the "2nd type of witness". But I started thinking about what I really meant by that. And what I really meant is this:

When we become aware of ourselves, we gain the power to change ourselves. We can interfere with our habits and automation, and choose to do something different. In doing so, we create new habits. What I meant by "awareness is recursive" is that we can then become aware of those new habits, and do the process again.

Also, we can "realize" that we are undertaking a process of becoming aware and changing our habits. Yet, that itself is just another thought, which we can become aware of. Here, the point is that our awareness allows us to create a new thought, and this thought then becomes an object of our awareness. We are "aware of our awareness", but we are only really aware of thinking about our awareness.

But is there any true recursion? Is it possible to be aware of awareness without the intermediate step of converting it into a thought? I cannot say that I have had any such experience.

I have certainly had the experience of "Life is empty and meaningless, and it's empty and meaningless that life is empty and meaningless." But I feel that that awareness is a single level of awareness, involving an intermediate step of creating awareness as a thought object. And I believe that the power of the awareness of LIEAMAIEAMTLIEAM (how's that for an acronym?) comes from human logic, because it permeates through, giving us an awareness that all our thoughts and beliefs are really thought objects, and all of them are under our power.

Now I have the question in my mind.. is "Life is empty and meaningless, and it's empty and meaningless that life is empty and meaningless" equivalent to "witnessing the witness"?

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Comments {5}

Hello AFI fan (:

from: unwhiterabbits
date: May. 19th, 2006 05:31 pm (UTC)
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Hi. I got your website from the AFI Forums site. Is it possible if I link your site from mine? I am trying to gather all Singaporean AFI fans, and would suggest you to head to my site soon. Thank you, and promote your beloved AFI! (:

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btherl

Re: Hello AFI fan (:

from: btherl
date: May. 20th, 2006 02:59 am (UTC)
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Hi!

I sent you an email, but in case you don't get it, contact skylaratfield on the forums. She is the AFI fan you are looking for, not me :)

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Re: Hello AFI fan (:

from: unwhiterabbits
date: May. 20th, 2006 02:35 pm (UTC)
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Hey thank you. I got her particular, and will contact her shortly. Thank you for your supportiveness! (: You rock, matey (;

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(no subject)

from: anonymous
date: May. 22nd, 2006 10:50 am (UTC)
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I guess in attempting to respond to this I end up wondering about the definition of "equivalence" in the query. By "equivalent" I am thinking "has the same effects or outcomes to all intents and purposes". It follows therefore that if I can find one (and certainly if I can find lots of) example(s) of outcomes derivable from one statement but not the other that they are significantly not equivalent.

Straight away I think they are not equivalent, merely related. In fact I think LIEAMAIEAMTLIEAM is an example of "witnessing the witness".

I think you could be pondering something else like "Life is beautiful and it's beautiful that life is beautiful"

I think the meaning/meaningless aspect is distinct from "witnessing the witness.



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Paula (second response)

from: anonymous
date: May. 22nd, 2006 10:59 am (UTC)
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Forgot to sign the last comment.

"Witnessing the witness" seems like the book cover showing a child reading a book with the same cover, showing therefore a child reading a book with the same cover etc. pretty straight recursion.

LIEAMAIEAMTLIEAM seems just an example of that - an example of recursive thinking.

Paula

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